Cosmetic IPL Laser Reviews & Comparisons > Chinese made Q-Switched laser? Any good?
Chris: If you provide an e-mail address I can send you some useful information about affordable Q YAG lasers.
med spa guy
Hi, med spa guy:
Thanks for the reply.
My email is: chris_qld@yahoo.com.au
Cheers,
Chris
charlie
Hi med spa guy, would you please send me the info too? laicheung114@yahoo.com
LC
Med Spa Guy could you send me the info too. pat.monroern@yahoo.com
Oh and I am still having login issues.
Pat
Pat Monroe
I can sell a new q-switched YAG for under 40K with a two year warranty. I distribute lasers.
This laser is from one of the top companies.
Contact me at bcliberty@gmail.com if you are interested. I hope as a vendor I am allowed to post comments. If I am not, please let me know.
BC
Can you provide info regarding low cost q switched ndyag thanks....nofliesonme@verizon.net
nofliesonme
I had a look at a chinese made laser made by Macfree Lasers in Beijing, China.
Model: TY-6 (Macfree tattoo removal NG:YAG laser)
http://www.macfree-lasers.com/productshow.asp?id=39
The specifications published by the company:
Maximal single pulse output: 600mJ
Spot size: 1-5mm
However, I found that the maximal single puse output is no greater than 380mJ, the spot size is 1-3mm.
The machine doesn't have a key switch. It uses emergency switch to turn the machine on and off.
Its power supply is very unstable.
Its handpiece produces very poor quality laser beam.
The proteceive goggles provided with the machine is orange colour with a label saying that this goggles filters only 190nm - 540nm.
I asked their sales manager Tina some questions. Here is her answers:
(1) Regarding maximal single pulse output:
"The Max energy is 400mj, How does this machine used? If you ever bought Q switch machine from China, you must know the true energy is smaller than screen energy."
"The engineer said the screen energy is not so accurate"
(2) Regarding the goggles:
"And we can offer the orange goggles only, I am sorry for that."
(3) Rest of questions:
"we are very thanks for your support to our machine. If you still have some technology problems,please send email to our after sale service."
charlie
correction: However i found that the maximal single pulse output for 1064nm is no greater than 360mJ,...
Without a key switch, any one, including children, can turn on the machine.
If you use the goggles provided by the company, you will soon become blind (caused by exposure to 1064nm laser beam)
I have no doubt that Macfree doesn't care about safety.
charlie
We are equipment supplier from China also. I am sorry to read the above staff and sorry for the poor suppliers from China who make "Made in China" brand with bad reputations.
They are only a few suppliers offer such poor service, even we dont comment on product quality, the service is horrible. And the false product technical parameter is common between the ones who have no technical background, the clients are easily cheated by the fake parameters which seems high quality... So honest is the base of cooperation.
About the key switch and safety glass, they are basic requirment for laser system and CE requirments, a decent manufacture should know that...
Hope the buyer could learn about the suppliers and products, choose a reliable supplier,then buy the products. I think you still could find good products from China, since most suppliers still wanna long-term cooperation.
Phoenix
why no key switch? I never heard that a Nd:Yag laser (also other machine) no keys. Really puzzled me, what the manufacturer are thinking ??? Can "the sale manager" Tina tell us why???
Lane
Hi, Lane,
I asked Tina the same question but she failed to give me the answer. I said to her that the laser is Class 4 laser and must have a key switch. I said that it's used to prevent unauthorised use of the laser.
Her email address is: "Tina Lee" <macfree001@gmail.com>
Basically Macfree is not interested in the safety and legal requirements of their products. Look at the facts:
(1) no key switch
(2) goggles provided by Macfree do have protect eyes from 1064nm laser beam even though the laser is designed to produce 1064nm laser beam
(3) the company lies about the laser.
Here is Tina's answers:
"The engineer said the screen energy is not so accurate,"
"And we can offer the orange goggles only, I am sorry for that."
"switch is the emergency switch"
"The Max energy is 400mj, How does this machine used? If you ever bought Q switch machine from China, you must know the true energy is smaller than screen energy." (She was saying all Chinese companies lie about their products so she doesn't feel guilty about lying). Here is the problem: on the screen, the maximal single pulse energy is 980mJ, their ad says that the maximal single pulse energy is 600mJ, the real maximal single pulse energy (according to Tina) is 400mJ, however our test shows it's no more than 360mJ.
Here is the link to the machine on Macfree's website
You can see their advertised specifications.
charlie
(2) goggles provided by Macfree do not protect eyes from 1064nm laser beam even though the laser is designed to produce 1064nm laser beam
(sorry for the typo)
charlie
We are a large company in the UK and have dealt with and are having problems with macfree,the machine we ordered and the machine we received were completely different and ours too had no key switch(does not meet European or any standards.).Incorrect specs and no offer a refund(I could go on and on).I know their any many good suppliers in China but its the ones like Macfree who give them all a bad name.
I would advise any one not to deal with Macfree lasers.
Thanks Martin-nerolasers
martin
While it may be legal to purchase IPLs and Lasers from China in other parts of the world, as far as I know, there are NO Chinese lasers or IPLs that have received FDA approval in the US and it would not be legal to use these in the US. As for myself, I would not be comfortable purchasing any type of equipment from China since there's certainly never going to be any recourse if you have a problem or issue. There's also the complete lack of any oversight agency.
I'm curious about our members outside of the US though; is anyone in Europe, Asia or Australia using Chinese lasers? What's been your experience?
(Please identify yourself if you would for this... I don't have any doubt that there are Chinese manufacturers and others that would shill post on here.)
Dr. Charles
I would like to know why Medicam got a MDL license from the Canadian health when all there machines are made in china
the will buy a $ 2600.00 IPL machine and sell in Canada for up to $60.000.00 and then refuse to give you any warranty
[This post has been modified for violating our terms. Direct solicitations for business are not permitted.]
Jake Fehr
Good Chinese IPL or Laser is an oxymoron. Their standards of manufacturing, safety testing, documentation, and quality are far below what is expected of North American consumers. Investing in Korean, Chinese made, or Made in Singapore is akin to throwing your money in the trash. You may also end up with a lawsuit that will put you out of business if you injure a patient, and you are likely to with an IPL made in Asia. If they do not meet FDA, ANSI, ASLMS, local, and state standards, there is no way of telling what is their actual output, and you are far more likely to injure a patient than if you are using an FDA approved device... AND you would be breaking the law.
As for Medicam, if their devices are approved for use in Canada, then that's the only place you can use them (in North America). If their devices are manufactured at a cost of $2,600 and sold for $60,000, that is their prerogative, and a standard of business with many medical device manufacturers. The best way to protest their prices is simply not to purchase their devices, but offering a similarly or lower quality product is not the answer. There is no IPL in the world you can purchase new for that price and meet anyone's standards of quality and safety.
Mickey Couvertier, CBET, CLRT
I am sorry for the unqualified Chinese suppliers who make the worldwide clients so disappointed. However, dear, Chris, did u notice their machine only 18kg, how could such a big system comes with such little weight? Even the power supply or the laser head or the outside package box is heavier than that. I guess, its an passive Q-switched laser system inside, just with a big cabinet and delivery arm outside. When you choose the suppliers, you should ask for their structure picture inside and their laser lab test result to value the machine.
About the US$2,600 IPL system, the buyer should know clearly what kind of machine they are purchasing. They focus more on their own profit not the product quality?
Sometimes, we got inquires from European countries also, who demands the cheapest quality parts, such as a rod US$50 for their system? At least, we never adopt such poor and cheap quality rod for our system! So all European products are high quality? I think the market will select the true qualified supplier at last and kick away the cheaters. So when I got the inquiry asking for US$1,500 IPL, I never reply them. I think they are joking!
So maybe when you choosing a suppliers without know the products well, without know the supplier R&D alibility well, the supplier may thought the cooperation between you two is a joke also.
When blame the poor suppliers, think if ourselves also not responsible for our own choice also. At last, I still believe, the better ones will survive at last!
There are good machines from China, cost US$65,200 even 9,200....But its their own right to choose the cheapest one they want.
As an Italian client said, they only cost 1/10 of the price compared with other famous brand, why they demand the same quality. I never want to urge for some of the Chinese poor machines. But only when there is market demands, they are should be the low cost and poor quality machines, also there are some famous B2B website, if you think the supplier didnt offer correct service or you were defrauded, you can reported to cancel the cheater's account. As buyers, you have right to maintain your own right, not only complain here,
As a developing country, China still have many things to do in the hi-tech field. But that not mean all Chinese products are poor. There is no electronic product works 100% sure. Even Lumenis and Medilight have after-sale service in local also.
Yes, its difficult to get FDA approval. But is that really mean all Chinese supplier offer poor quality product? Our products are tested strictly according TUV medical CE requirement right now. We learned a lot from the processes to improve the quality and we almost get the certifiate already.
About the after sale service, even we cant avoid misfuncation sometimes, but we never hide, we always stand behind our machine to support our clients, or send engineer for door to door service, since we believe long-term cooperation is more important than the present profit.
Phoenix
I have a tattoo and hair removal business in Australia and I have purchased 3 IPL machines from China and 1 ND Yag from Phoenix (see above post)
I must say, the ND yag laser I have purchased has been brilliant, it removes the ink just as good as the Cynosure or Medlite. I had a power supply problem with the machine and straight away the company has organised to send an engineer out to me and I would say they have bent over backwards to do the right thing.
Michelle
Hi, Phoenix:
I don't agree entirely with your view as I can see your say was influenced by hidden agenda.
Let's look at the issue from consumer's point of view.
You are looking for a large size short sleeve shirt. At David Johns (upper market Department Store in Australia), the price is $150, but at Big W (ordinary department store) the price is $30. The same size and similar style, but different brand names. Do you think everyone in Australia should go to David Johns for the $150 shirt? I think most of us would go to Big W.
Now here is the real problem, that is, if the size of the shirt is actually small but the store put a "large size" label on the shirt in order to make extra few dollars, and if the material is synthetic but the store says the material is pure high quality cotton then this is dishonesty. This is what's Macfree and some other Chinese companies been doing.
charlie
I think Michelle and Phoenix are the same person or at least they work together. They are here to promote their products. I hope I'm wrong.
"I had a power supply problem with the machine and straight away the company has organised to send an engineer out to me and I would say they have bent over backwards to do the right thing." How much would this cost the company to send out an engineer to Australia to fix the problem of an IPL machine?
charlie
@ Chris 01,
Pheonix and Michelle are not the same person. I looked up the IP address for the computers that the comments were posted from. Pheonix is in Beijing, Michelle is in Austrailia as she indicates.
Jeff
Medical Spa MD
Hi, Jeff, thanks.
It's good to know.
Another question is whether Michelle's machines are from Pheonix's company or elsewhere.
We have bought both good machines from China as well.
These days we can't trust what they say about their products. There are so many dodgy companies.
charlie
Thanks Jeff,
Yes I am in Australia and have purchased a machine from Phoenix....and plan to buy another.
This is the second company I have dealt with in China... and maybe I have been lucky but the other company where I bought 2 x IPLS from have been great also. I did do my research though and I think that helps.
Michelle
Phoenix says: "When blame the poor suppliers, think if ourselves also not responsible for our own choice also. "
What a nonsense !
If you tell a buyer that your 808nm diod, which produces max 40J/cm2, can be used to treat varicose veins and spider veins, but, in fact, 40J/cm2 is too low for the treatment of varicose veins, who should be blamed, Phoenix? We know it's OK for a max 40J/cm2 laser to be used for hair removal but for varicose veins the higher energy output is needed. You mislead buyers and you should be blamed but not the other way round.
From what you, a supplier, said here, I can tell where you are from and what you stand for. Why should we believe you?
charlie
@Pheonix- My comments were solely intended for North American standards. You are certainly welcome to market your products in any country where it is legal, but to say your products meet safety requirements because they meet TUV and CE testing guidelines is ridiculous, and evidential of your ignorance regarding laser safety.
If your products don't meet ANSI recommendations, ASLMS recommendations, and most importantly, the FDA's guidelines as stated in 21 CFR 1040.10-11, and tested by CDRH, then you are not meeting ANY laser or light based standards for safety in the US as these are the only accepted standards for premarket sales and post market service.
China is not a developing country. It is the second most powerful economy in the world, and soon will be the first. The population is at least 3 times that of the US population, and the civilization much, much older. It is far from "developing." There is no reason why Chinese manufacturers shouldn't meet FDA guidelines, or why Chinese devices shouldn't be submitted to the 510K/PMA process, unless they are not meeting the standards. In that case they should not be used, marketed, or advertised to North American consumers.
Mickey Couvertier, CBET, CLRT
just another response to Pheonix's post.
Pheonix said that we are to blame if we chose cheap machines rather than his expensive machines.
Let met tell you, the quality of higher price items may not necessarily better lower priced items. In our case, Macfree's TY-6 Q-switched ND:YAG laser is much more expensive than a mini-portable tattoo removal laser with a $500 price tag. However the quality of laser produced by the mini laser is a lot better than Macfree's TY-6 laser. We emailed photos of the comparison to Macfree and they agreed that their laser hand piece has some problem. However so far the company has refused to send a new hand piece to us.
Phoenix, the website of your company contain misleading information as well, just like many other Chinese companies.
charlie
Hi, Chris, why you are so angry? I try to keep a neutral attitude, if I seems speaks for the Chinese products, that bcs the commenters give negative comments for all Chinese suppliers. That's like judge a person according to which country he/she is from. everyone is different, we cant say all people from where are the same. So I think its not fair to say all Chinese products are poor quality also.
I know what people will comment when Michelle told me about her post....If I wanna make ad here, I should choose a better way, maybe pretend to be a buyer, but that not what I want to do. In the begining, I just wanna help Chris with his problem, but he seems resisit and misunderstand my purpose, However, it doesnt matter. I just try to tell you be carefully when make decisions, however, when we blame the poor service from the supplier we should think that if we could do something which supposed to make the decision better. I never intend to blame you, I wanna tell u the right way to maintain your right.
There are many fake LV in China, when people admire the real LV, some dreaming the cheap LV are also real.....BTW, machine is much different with a shirt, the problem is if the two shirt are really the same quality. For a shirt, its just the material with a famous brand or somethings else. however, for a machne, they are different in many ways, its not easy to judge by the apperance only.
So, Chris, I never wanna public our company name here. Pls kindly tell me what info we offered to mislead the buyers, if its our mistake we will revise it at once, since we never intend to do that.
Thank you!
Phoenix
Phoenix: your website says your 808nm diode laser (max 40J/cm2) can be used to treat varicose veins. Are you able to show me the evidence?
If I buy your machine after reading all the info from your website, and then I find out your machine can't be used for varicose veins, who should be responsible? Based on your philosophy, I, the buyer, is the one to blame even though you misled me. That's cr#p!
I'm not angry but i feel some of your comments do not make sense at all.
charlie
Phoenix,
Your statements amount to a simplistic copout. You have failed to address any questions regarding quality, and are instead appealing to political correctness, when it doesn't even apply. Statements regarding Chinese products- and your claim that anybody said "all Chinese products" is simply false- have nothing to do with discrimination by race or ethnicity. It has EVERYTHING to do with national laws, safety standards, and manufacturing requirements- all things you refuse to address, or speak of, or even defend.
"So I think its not fair to say all Chinese products are poor quality also."- You can't represent a manufacturer, make this statement, and not defend your product. Otherwise your statement is just frivolous. There are Chinese suppliers who meet FDA standards, and they provide parts, not devices. If you know of a Chinese device that meets FDA standards, and is approved for marketing and use in the US, then that is the product one should defend. If there is such a product, it is not manufactured to Chinese standards. By virtue of the product meeting FDA guidelines, it would be manufactured to US standards. Until the Chinese government issues regulations more strict than those required in the US, this statement will always be true.
Mickey Couvertier, CBET, CLRT
I know some suppliers got FDA bcs they have local partners who assist them for that.
Phoenix
Here is the photo from Beijing Macfree Lasers' sales ad:
You can see, no key switch, but a red emergency switch. This doesn't meet any country's laser safety standards.
chris 01
sorry, don't know how to post a photo here. it seems it's not allowed.
charlie
"From what you, a supplier, said here, I can tell where you are from and what you stand for. Why should we believe you?"
Chris, I didnt notice that you said this. I never hide my real idenity. I say we are supplier also.
It seems you wanna fight with me with everything you can find about me or our products, not communicate with the problem.
Its your choice to choose what kind of product, and during our conversions, I think its not worthy to make any effort to help you or trust us....Let's stop
Bye
Phoenix
BTW, I never care or wanna your trust also, especially I noticed your sentence I posted above.....That's not friendly at all.
Did I ever say you should be blamed? I say we are should repsonsible for our own decisions, I use "WE" not "you". I try stand in your shoses and comfort you...but according to your understanding, I am a cheater who blame u, so no need to communicate any more.
Phoenix
Note: Phoenix posted the following above; "If I wanna make ad here, I should choose a better way, maybe pretend to be a buyer,"
This is a common tactic that is often tried in order to advance an agenda.
I'll just note that, while not perfect, we try very hard to out anyone who is posting as a shill, using multiple accounts or similar tactics to skew the conversation. Don't do this ever! If we catch you we will out you, post about it, ban your IP and take whatever action we deem necessary to protect our community. Believe me, you do not want us to our you and create a situation where people searching for your company find the post outing you as the first listing in Google.
(I'm not directing this comment at Phoenix just addressing this point for anyone who may be thinking about it.)
Medical Spa MD
If Phoenix or Michelle could contact me that would be great.
I'm looking for good suppliers.
Cheryl
My email is: calgaryantiagingspa@shaw.ca
Cheryl
well, I'm looking for a q-switched laser as well, and I'm disappointed at the insightless posturing of the north americans here. I'm in Australia and I would like to hear from Phoenix
louietheflie@gmail.com
I've bought several American devices and a couple of Chinese over the years. The American devices have tended to be hideously over-priced and have built in consumable costs that amount to ongoing revenue streams for the manufacturer. Oh, and quite often the patients don't get results even remotely resembling the promise from the supplier. The Chinese machines, on the other hand, have been 97% terrific and 3% completely nuts. However, with a bit of nous one can work around the nutty aspects and end up getting great results for the patients at little cost.
So, Mr Phoenix - I like what you have to say. Email me.
john
Chery and John, I will send you email soon. Pls check. Have a nice day!
phoenix
Hi Cheryl,
Feel free to contact me at michelle@keyper.net
Or anyone else for that matter, Im happy to discuss my experiences with the machines I have bought over there.
Michelle
I can not speak for all chinese lasers regarding quality. I use a korean laser and simply love it. If the technology is of good quality and the beam pattern consistant and with no significant variations in power output then the laser may indeed be useful.
I dont know about other nations but here in the US the laser must meet FDA approval. The laser must have a margin of safety, quality control, have a dependable consistant output and perform the task for which it is being cleared. The use of non FDA approved systems in the US is not legal and should an injury arise there would be hell to pay for sure.
So if you really want a laser from China make sure its FDA approved for the intended use.
gm
But you know in china though the machine quality is good but procedure of FDA application is very complicated and not workable for our chinese suppliers.It is not easy to get FDA approval! So the popular way we do is to give our customers favorable price which is much lower than FDA approved devices.
kario Jiang
friends please help me ..................i want to buy best q switch nd yag laser for tattoo removal............please suggest me best laser product company and from where to buy................my email thelorddrive@hotmail.com
harman
If not FDA approved, can you get insurace coverage?
I dont think so.
If you were to burn someone, you will be sued and you may want to wave bye-bye to your hard earned reputation and
your kid's college funds.
Why take such risk?
No one like these FDA approved laser suppliers, we all know they ripping us off, but do you have any other choice?
The answer is ---NO.
You want to be in the game, you pay for the high cost of membership.
If you cant stand the heat, leave the kitchen.
mugen
If you are looking for a true tattoo removal laser, you need to consider the power of the device. There are so many lasers available on the market that claim to be a tattoo removal laser, but are good for only the dark colored inks. There are many devices that can remove dark colored tattoo ink; it's the lasers that can remove the exotic colors of ink and do so in less treatments that you should be seeking. Buying a laser that leaves a faded outline or image, or one that maybe leaves a scar because the operator needed to bump up the energy to have any effect, will make if very difficult to build your image and business in the tattoo removal marketplace. Tattoo are comprised of many colors; to remove the exotic colors of ink, you have to change the wavelength output of the device. When you change the wavelength from 1064nm to 532nm, you lose about 55% of the energy. Changing it again to a wavelength to remove sky blues/yellows/greens will reduce the energy by another 55 to 65%. There is only one laser on the market with the energy to remove all tattoo colors in less treatments. Go to http://www.skinbusiness.com/Applications-TattooRemoval.html
Doug D
Doug I looked at that site and I agree the Focus lasers are likely the best most powerful around.
American made units in a family run business. The laser is very powerful but you must know what you are doing.
gm
To GM, I am planning to open a spa offering laser hair reduction and skin rejuvenation, I would love to have details about your machine and where to buy one. My e-mail is medgac@hotmail.com. Thank you.
To Charlie, how did you determine the wavelenght of the 1064? You sound like a supplier threatened buy competition, I am sure there are unreliable companies in China, but there are many there. I have also looked at their products, did you get details on machine before posting they key issue as fact?
Cindi
To medspa guy, I would also like to have information that you have offered on buying a machine, it seems to be such a hard decision. My e-mail is medgac@hotmail.com.
Cindi
dear medspa guy, i'd also like to have the information regarding to buy q-switched nd yag. please email me at just_glory@yahoo.com. thanks in advanced
supernova
Hi, everyone,
I wonder anyone here has used Chinese made Q switched lasers. Any comments or suggestion would be appreciated.
I need a Q-Switched laser mainly for pigmentation treatment.
Thanks.