I received this email from a patient who is using a $40 Home Diode that she got from Ebay. See below. This patient has been using this LED for a few weeks and she says it works! Why buy a $20,000 LED (GentleWaves) when you can get one for $40? I will be looking into LEDs aggressively because I believe they work. What wavelength is best? Can we use home devices? What brand name is best (GentleWaves, OmniLux, Sybaritic) if we buy a commercial unit? Any opinions? Any experience with LEDs?

Jeff E.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260314346523&category=101925&_trksid=p3907.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D13%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54

Hi Dr. Epstein, This is excatly like the one I bought. It does not have to much info on it, but its seems to be working? Let me know what you think. Looking forward to reading your newsletter !!

Cathy

Hi Jeff,

If the average exposure time for a LED is 20 minutes, how many hours would you need, to treat the whole face using the hand-held unit?
As long as it emits red, blue or yellow light, it will have some effect on the skin.
I use a table-top unit for which I paid $1500. It emits red, blue, and red-blue light, and it works just fine!

Edward

Hi Ed, I know that the GentleWave treatment take less than one minute. Perhaps that is why is costs so much. Maybe it is worth it if it takes less time and works better. Jeff E

Ed, which unit do you use? How long is a treatment? How well does it work? Does it help with redness after Fractional Ablative Rx?

Jeff: In a nutshell, here are a few key things to know right away about LED therapies--

1. The mechanism of action is entirely different from lasers and pulsed light. The LED photons affect skin cells directly -- for example the activity of the mitochondria, etc.

2. Red wavelength LEDs are primarily known for accelerated wound healing, etc. A great post-treatment enhancement for soothing inflammmation and promoting faster recovery, etc.

3. Yellow wavelength LEDs are primarily known for their anti-aging properties. Certainly the affects are subtle but long term benefits may prove to be decent.

4. According to David Goldberg, the smaller, cheaper units simily don't have the power to actually do much. At some point - like with lasers - I am sure there is a critical dosage necessary to achieve a benefit. This factor also needs to be tested.

RON

Ron

I think your summary is correct on a basic level. I have been working with LED for 2-3 yrs mostly for hair restoration. I have actually been hired by a company to do some clinical advising, and am starting clinical research at present. Most reliable info comes from scientists looking at photo biostimulation.

Some points to consider.

1. Present evidence shows near infra red in 600-700nm wavelength is most effective for hair restoration and positive effects on skin.

2. Blue around 420nm is effective for acne secondary to antimicrobial properties. Photons interrupt cellular metabolism (p.acnes)

3. Green and yellow show no aesthetic benefit in the research I have seen.

4. I have to agree with David Goldberg. Hand held units are ineffective for two reasons; not enough power, too much exposure time would be needed to be effective.

5. I use 670nm LED/Laser for hair restoration. It takes 6-8 weeks to see growth under magnification, and 10-14 weeks to be visible to patient and others.

6. There is clinical evidence to show some positive skin changes with red but it takes 1-2 sessions per week and results are seen in 3-6 months of treatment.

7. Red is effective for wound healing. I do not own one but have used Omnilux post resurfacing and the period of erythema and edema sems to be shortened.

8. Too much/frequent exposure for hair restoration has a negative effect. I found that out the old fashion way.

Greg

Greg,

I think that LED for hair restoration may be different than LED for wound healing and rejuvenation.
I am interested in it for wound healing (after TotalFx) and Rejuvenation (nice service for my patients). Let's keep this discussion to Wound Healing and Rejuvenation. We can break out other LED discussion to other threads.

I will get the scoop at the ASLMS conference on home units, energy, power, wavelengths, etc. I want to go well prepared with intelligent questions.

Jeff

Greg and Jeff: I will send you copies of some good articles on the yellow wavelengths. Technically they don't consider a wavelength "infrared" until it becomes invisible to the human eye. Thanks for the feedback. Hope all is well. I am still waiting to hear back from my IT guy here at Sybaritic on the SEO project, etc.

RON

Jeff, I have used the Omnilux LED for about a year, both for rejuvenation and acne. The results are definitely positive, but subtle. I chose this brand of LED because I thought it would be difficult to justify a significant expense for less than a 20 minute treatment. Anyone in the office can set up the light, freeing the staff from other duties. I chose to use more eye protection than recommended by the manufacturer when using the red light. It is very bright. It is a nice add-on to other treatments. Peter
GentleWaves is Yellow Light
Omnilux is RED?
Mitch
Jeff,
Check out lightwaves, I just bought a unit that combines high power red and blue led. A good value and a good company too, use my name…
Mitch
(866) 999-6954Mike Poling is owner
Jeff,For wound healing, red led and yellow led are great, in combination with N.I.R.I generally use red plus IR.Again, look at lightwaves, it has the highest power and is most versatile. I did a lot of research on this.
Mitch
Jeff,
Check out lightwaves, I just bought a unit that combines high power red and blue led. A good value and a good company too. For wound healing, red led and yellow led are great, in combination with N.I.R.
I generally use red plus IR.
Again, look at lightwaves, it has the highest power and is most versatile.
I did a lot of research on this.
Mitch

Thanks, Mitch. Great info on LEDs.
Is red or yellow better for wound healing? Does Red do Rejuvenation?
Does your LightWaves work after FractionalCO2 Treatments? How much more quickly do your patients heal and how much more quickly does the PIH go away (I get pigmentation in almost every patient that I do). It fades over time but can take months!
As for the NIF, What specific wavelength of NIR (near infrared) do you use? Which IPL (Palomar or Sciton)? What pulse duration and energy? How many passes? How many treatments and at what intervals? What do you charge of this or do you make it part of your packages? Thanks. -- Jeff E
Jeff: OmniLux has half a dozen optional wavelength combinations. Red + IR, yellow + IR, yello + red, blue, etc. etc. They give each configuration a different name.

RON
Jeff, Omnilux has three interchangeable heads. Blue for acne, red, and near infrared, each with a different wave length. Peter
Hi Jeff,

Sorry I couldn't answer you sooner, But it gets kind of crazy here in Brazil during the Carnival.
I bought the LED 08 months ago for the purpose of using it with PDT. After attending 03 workshops, I still prefer
to use my Er:YAG ablative laser, instead.
Due to extremely high customs taxes on medical equipment (100%-120%), most equipment of OmniLux quality is out of my range.
The Led that I bought I use as an add-on,( I tend to agree with Peter that a 20 minute session is much more effective psychologically than a one minute session) in post-ablative treatment.

Twenty minute exposure to LED every other day during the first two weeks did reduce erythema and post-laser itch, 'somewhat'. I do not have an opinion on using for PIH.
I paid $1500 for the (Chinese) desk-top unit, here. It is called : GJL 600. Their web site is: http://www.ipl-beauty.com

Ed
ps I did not forget about your $1.00 Real banknote. Please send me your mailing address.
Yahoo … MAPA will soon have a a Real Banknote to go with its paper currency from India, China, Taiwan, Egypt, etc!
Red best for wound healing.
For pdt, lightwaves is best option. –Mitch

For PDT/Acne, the BLU-U 420 nm wavelength has treated my acne patients well; however, I don't have multiple lasers to compare. Sandra
Jeff, This thread is very interesting but I’ve gotten lost! When you’ve done all of your research and have decided on the best unit please share!
To those of you already using for acne, how much improvement are you seeing? How many treatments and how often?
Susan D.
420nm blue twice per week (15-20 minutes per) for four weeks keeps p.acnes at bay for 6-8 months according to most literature. You must be careful because too much of this is known to discolor skin.

Greg
Posts are current up until Feb 21, 2009. Please Continue the Discussion.