A new cosmetic laser company from Korea has recently entered the market.
http://sellas.kr/esellase/index.html

I am currently trying out their Sellas fractional laser system, the sellas 1550. I was shown a bunch of before and after pictures from the Sellas sales rep.
http://sellas.kr/esellase/inc_html/index.html?sub=2&s_code=1

I am still skeptical about the results. Will draw my own conclusion when I am done with the demo session.

This is the cheapest fractionated laser I've seen and it has no consumable parts. I am doing a side by side comparison of the Sellas 1550 with my Sciton 2940 Erbium yag laser.

We maybe seeing a wave of cheaper cosmetic laser technologies from Korea and Japan in the next few years.

Fractional system is not worthy to invest for clinical practice.
Since you have own a Sciton 2940 Erbium yag laser, you don't have to buy another similar instrument. For me, I have the same experience, but the outcome is the same. Never trust the sales reps. The energy output is much less than Fraxel.

I too own a fractional CO2 laser from Korea. I have used it for about 5 months and have done for about 50 patients on various indication, including acne scar, tightening, pigmentation, and I have to say I am extremely impressed with the result. This is less than 1/2 the price of Lumenis active fx.

Put aside the comparision of the different fractional co2 laser models, I cannot agree that "fractional system in not worthy to invest for clinical practice". In fact, Fraxel itself is a fractional non-ablative system.

There are a lot of comments on this website here about how useful and effective the fractional co2 laser systems are. Please also excuse me for quoting from some non-medical journals meterials:

1. aesthetic buyers guide Nov/Dec 2007 www.miinews.com : Dr David Goldberg noted that skin tightening is rare with other fractional technologies. " For example, the fraxel laser is a very good laser. However, people require multiple treatments and they generally do not achieve skin tightening.Active Fx requires only one treatment session and still delivers skin tightening."

2. Nov/Dec 2007 MedEsthetics : Dr Michael Gold : " If a patient comes to me and says, " I want one treatment and one treatment only." I recommend CO2 fractionated resurfacing. these devices allow us to achieve results similar to those we get with the Fraxel in one month versus six months."

There are couple of doctors here in Hong Kong who, although having owned a Fraxel for the last 2 years, opted to purchase the same fractional co2 laser I am using.

I am not sure whether you are duplicating your laser systems unnecessarily, but I would like to say: " Fractional CO2 laser does deliver very good results, and that the cheaper version from Korea is not antwhere inferior, as long as you know how to choose the good one with combination of high power/ denities choices.

What is the name of the Korean company that manufactured the device?

I went to the Sellas website. The machine shown, the Sellas 1550, seems to be an erbium machine, not a CO2. Was there a different model you were using, that is a CO2 laser?

That is correct. The Sellas is an fractional erbium, not CO2. There is another Korean fractional erbium called Mosaic.

Kenneth wang above said it is a Sellas 1550, never said it is a fractional CO2 laser.

My personal feeling is, (not necessary true), unlike CO2 laser, erbium is relatively superficial and mild already, why bother going fractional? Also erbium does not cause as much contraction.

The model I am using is Colagen. Unfortunately they don't have any info on their website.

Dr. Stephan,

You need to know that the erbium is not superficial. Using the 2940, I just did full face resurfacing on a patient and went to about 500 microns in the perioral region and on her acne scarring. I can go as deep as 200 microns per pass if I want but tend to go no deeper than 100 microns per pass. I can also add coagulation (25,50 or 100 microns)to each pass if I prefer. This does allow for significant contraction and works very well in the periorbital region but adds to the downtime and increases the risks.

I think the non-ablative 1550 erbium such as the Fraxel works OK but not that great. It is just has less downtime which is what many of my patients want. So I think you are correct that it has much more of a superficial benefit compared to ablative devices. You can get the Fraxel to about 1500 microns.

Sciton is released a fractionated 2940nm ablative erbium with the ability to use coagulation at ASLMS this year. I am hoping to get my hands on one to try very soon. It should be able to mimic the fractionated CO2's.

I want to ask the question of the others on this forum is the contraction from CO2 resurfacing (I do not do CO2) really worth it? Looking at the studies you lose a large portion of the contraction caused by CO2 after about 12 to 18 months. So is it worth the increased risks to use CO2 for full face resurfacing vs the erbium which is somewhat safer?

Hi LH,
Other than the benefit of tightening effect from CO2 laser over erbium,are there any other advantages that is worth the increased risks according to you?Are your patients with acne scarring satisfied with your treatment?

Yes, my patients are satisfied with erbium resurfacing but remember I am going deep. For acne scars I think that the erbium is the best choice because of decreased downtime and decreased risks. You do not need any form of shrinkage or coagulation to work with acne scars.

But what about full face resurfacing for static wrinkles? This is the question I am trying to decide. Is the tightening from a CO2 worth the risk of scaring and pigmentation changes? I am hoping for input from others on this one.

LH:

Wow I am amazed that you go to the depth of 500 um (100 um x 5 passes) for acne scar resurfacing. I am affraid to try anything deeper than 200um on my patient population (type IV skin) due to the problems associated with post inflammatory hyperpigmentation. I now pretreat these patients with Hydroquinone 4% (Glyquin cream) before I do any deep treatments. With acne scar treatment, superficial treatment yields poor results.

Thanks for sharing your resurfacing parameters with us. I always wonder how deep we can go with the sciton 2940 erbium to see good results. I have turned away a few deep acne scar patients because I do not have a fractionated CO2 laser system (Lumenis Active FX) to do the job.

thanks for the input.

By the way, my demo session of the Sellas laser yielded poor results. Of the 6 cases I performed that day, only one patient observed significant difference. The salesman mentioned that we need to do more treatment session to see good results.

Acne scar remains one of the most difficult condition in my practice. Hope there is a solution soon.

LH,

I agree with you that full face erbium is a good treatment modality for acne scar.

What I was saying is that erbium is "relatively" superficial, and therefore "why bother to go fractional", as in the case of Kenneth Wang 's Korean Sellas machine. We may as well just do a full erbium resurfacing, like you do, as you point out correctly that the downtime was not that much of a problem.

That 's why Kenneth Wang did not see good result from Sellas.

Full face CO2 lase resurfacing, YES, very high risk, not worth it. That is why we are moving onto FRACTIONAL CO2 laser, that is what I have been talking about as well as using. However, I do believe that shrinkage or coagulation does work better with acne scars.

Kenneth Wang

There is a solution already, not soon. Fractional CO2 laser is definitely working very well for that.

Even if you don't have a Fractional CO2, stick to micro-dermabrasion, you get a reasonable result if you do it more aggressively. This is what I did 10 years ago.

Dr Stephen

Stuart,
Please join us on an eseminar coming up. Dr. V. Ross who was and I belive still a Cutera speaker for Pearl will be on the Ultrapulse FX panel. Dr. J. Dover his experiences with both Re:pair, Ultrapulse, and Plasma Portrait. This will be a great roundtable. Ultrapulse fractional CO2 I believe is the best fractional CO2 or any fractional device on the market. For physicians using anything else, I believe its basically price.

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/wt/content/AestheticWebinars

A colleague of mine has posted some very impressive before and after pictures for treatment of acne scar using the Korean fractional laser, The Mosaic 1550 Er Glass. I will ask him about his treatment parameters for theese photos later.
Many dermatologists from Asia are moving away from purchasing the pricier American Laser equipments (Reliant Fraxel, Lumenis Ultrapulse, Sciton Profractional....). They claim to deliver good results with the new line of Korean laser equipments costing half of what a typical name brand American laser equipment. My hands on demo session (performed by laser equipment salesman) yielded poor results with the Sellas and Mosaic lasers. Personal experience may vary. I would still stay with the mainstream American laser equipments and pay a higher price for safety, predictability.

http://www.iskin-yh.com.tw/page/yh-b00-01-01-03.htm

Can I ask what country you are in Kenneth?

Dear Dr Stephen
I read with interest your posts on the Korean machine you have. Thanks for sharing your experience. Can I ask you if your Colagen is from the company Miche? Is it called colagen thermoscan? If I may ask, how much does it cost? The settings on the colagen thermoscan shows variable in degree, distance and energy. It does not directly shows the MTZ settings. Wonder if it is the same?

It is from a company called DanilSMC in Korea. I believe it is different.

The quotation is ~ us $65,000 us.

Lumenis was selling the Active Fx for us$150,000 here in HK last November last year, and they said the deep Fx would be a " a little more" !!!

I don't just bought the Colagen because it is cheap, as someone who says this on this blog. I bought this because it is good AND cheaper.

I don't agree with Kenneth Wang that higher price means better safety and predictability. I am sure many people had bad experience with the main stream american machines, even if they had paid a ripped-off price!

Most important thing is to understand your machine, don't just believe in "main stream" brands.

I received this email. I'm posting it here in this thread. Certainly the threat of a lawsuit is ridiculous, but every company is entitled to defend their reputation and name. Jeff.

________________________________________________________

"My name is _________, an overseas sales manager with DINONA Inc.
We are involved in medical laser business. Sellas is one of brand.

Recently I found an article at http://www.medicalspamd.com/tech-qa-ipl-platforms/post/375809 on your webpage.
Unfortunately, the author of this article, Kenneth Wang, criticized our Sellas product without any concrete reason and cause.

As his article spreads ugly rumor over worldwide with anonymity, we kindly ask you to delete it as soon as possible.
As a manufacturer, we have quite lots of damage on our product's brand image due to the unjustifiable article.
The above article is searched at high level on google site with browsing word "Sellas 1550".

We have never introduced or sold our product to him.
I tried to reach to him but I can't find his contact point on your website.
Before raising a suit, we would like to solve this problem with your help.

If he experience is true, he must present his medical paper with his name and contact details.

This is our official request which will be valid for raising our future lawsuit if we failed our trial to delete the article.

We need your help and it will be highly appreciated to us.

I look forward to your reply.

[Name and information deleted by request]

Dr Stephen

Thanks for your reply and thanks for sharing your experience with the Colagen and your advice. It has been very helpful

Hi Dr Stephen,
Why doesnt the website have info abt the Colagen laser?I am interested to have my acne scars treated by the machine but I just cant find any info abt it.I totally believe you but its just strange that the company doesnt provide any info at all abt this machine.

JP, yes they don't have the machine details on their web site, for reason I don,t know. But if you are looking for fractional co2 laser done in the us, then you could just go for the lumenis deep fx or the fraxel re:pair.

I put up what I do here with the colagen just for experience and technique discussion only with other doctors. You won't have this machine in the US.

dr stephen

I must apologize to Mr. Brian Song for my comments on medical spa md. My first demo session with the Sellas machine was performed with assistance from the local sales rep. I really can't comment on the Sellas machine especially when I did not have the chance to complete an entire course of Sellas treatments. Sellas is a new player in the laser market and we must not draw premature conclusions about this equipment without a thorough investigation.
My personal opinion from an one time demo session with the sales rep is meaningless. Afterall, many engineers have put in many hours of research and effort to develop a piece of equipment. We, as physicians, should not dismiss their efforts without a thorough understanding of their efficacy prior to drawing our conclusions.

Discussions on this website is now frequented by laser manufacturers around the world. Criticisms or speculations about certain equipments can lead to serious consequences and law suits.

I sincerely apologize to Dinona Inc for making personal comments which may have negatively affected their reputation. I hope my colleagues can continue to demo and buy Sellas lasers when it is marketed in their territory.

Kenneth Wang,

I do not think you should apologize as long as you told us the truth. You made a very clear statement about your experience with the Sellas Laser on 6 patients and then went on to explain that it may take more treatments for better results. I appreciate your input and having some laser manufacturer try to limit your speech should not happen. You did absolutely nothing wrong. Please do not stop giving honest opinions and input.

Totally agree. You told us the experience of trying the machine and that you don't find the improvement, that is nothing wrong, even if you have not used it right. It is up to the manufacturer to follow up on their potential clients and see if anything can be done better, rather than to threaten a lawsuit and gag them. I won'y even want to try their machines if they are such a radiculous company. So I can only say good thing after I tried it, but NO, I cannot tell people if I find the opposit?

I find the threat of a lawsuit absolutely ridiculous!!!!This is the internet here.You'll gonna read all kinds of opinions expressed by different people.All of us should analyze every bit of info and not just take it as is. .We come on here for honest opinions and not info that are swayed to the intimidations of these silly companies.

I would not even consider purchasing this particular fractional device if this "sales manager"'s attitude represents what the company stands for. I hope DINONA would issue a public apology to Dr. Wang to avoid any repercussion and damage this person has made on this site.

Dr. Wang, you have not ruined their reputation really, Many devices work but they could be technique-dependent. The reputation of this company and indeed any future sales of this device, are irreparably harmed by the post of this company sales manager.

Hi Kenneth,

I didnt get a response on what country you practice in? Are the skin types you treating mainly asian?

Hi, I've been using Sellas for more than 6 months, and I've been quite satisfied with the results it came up with. As laser surgeons, we all know about parameters and laser-tissue interaction. I came up with good results in patients with acne scars and enlarged pores. You can shorten treatment period by setting high energy, low density, but you need to prepare for blisters and possible PIH, and social downtime. With proper cooling, you can prevent blisters and PIH, but for short downtime period, I personally set for low energy, high density. I used Collagen, and Thermoscan, Thermoxel, Touchcell, and etc. Those CO2 fractional lasers are quite strong, but patients have laser marks on the faces for about a week or more. My patients are mostly 20~30 year female company workers, and they don't like laser marks on their faces. So I chose Sellas. Since it has less downtime. It only has erythema lasting only a day or maximum 3 days. I also used Fraxel Xena, but the effect is almost the same. In fact, I don't need to change any parts for Sellas. The price is much cheaper. You also can choose the spot shapes and sizes, and density as you like. If you can't find the right shape, then you can just draw it with your hand, and the machine recognizes the shape, and gives out the beam. I draw different shapes for unique scars. Hope my little exprience could be a little help here. I happened to find this website while surfing the internet, so I don't think I can check messages from this website. If you have any questions, plz leave me an email to : songwriter@nate.com Sorry for a long article.

Hi Seonguen:

Please share with us exactly what parameters you are using with the Sellas, so we may compare treatments, and learn what works for your patient population. Thanks!

Hi, TF, and fellow doctors.
I am giving you my secret recipe for Sellas.
I even thought of sending the recipe only to TF,
but since you guys are not my competitor(since u
r not in Korea), sharing it won't hurt me too much.
So, Plz Keep my recipe as private as possible.
And if you want to share with your friends,
you must specify where it is from. That's all I ask
before I give it to you.

1. For Deep scar removal,
Mode: Stamp
Energy: 15.0 mj ~ 22.5 mj
Density: 100 PPA
Pass: 3 pass
Handpiece: 2cm

2. For Shallow scar and Facial Resurfacing
Mode: Moving
Energy: 5.0 mj ~ 10.0 mj
Density: 1024 PPA
Pass: As Many As your patients can handle
Shots: 80,000 ~ 200,000 Shots
Handpiece: 1st 5cm -> 3cm -> 2cm

3. Tips
1) For Energy, Do not use the highest parameter I give you. Only after
you feel confident. For Deep scar, 15.0 mj is good enough. I seldom use 22.5 mj. It needs more than just parameters, so if you start with 15.0 mj, you will figure it out how to get to 22.5 mj without endangering your patients. And for Shallow scars and Facial Resurfacing, I recommend 7.5mj. 10.0mj on forehead or nose could show some blisters or oozing skins. When you see erythema and hear patients' screaming, that's the very time to stop. If your patients can endure pain well, you can go up to 200,000 shots, but I recommend 100,000~140,000 shots.
2) Use 5 cm Handpiece then change into 3cm, and 2 cm.
Smaller HP goes deeper in tisues, and also more painful.
Since they're more precise, U could use them for a smaller lesions
and some areas 5 cm HP cannot go easily because of its big size.
3) Post-treatment + Homecare
Use cooling pack
Make your patients use moisturizing cream and regeneration cream
every 3 hour for 1 whole week. Sunblock is basic.
4) Combination
MTS, IPL, Peeling is all possible.
But downtime gets longer.
MTS is recommended for Combi. Tx.
Dotpeel, Subcision, Saline inj. are not recommended on the same day
of Sellas Tx. A week or 2 weeks later is recommended.

4. Comp. with Other CO2 Fractionals
I had Thermoxel. I had many CO2 Fractionals for demo. Most of my patients are early 20s to mid 30s female patients. They don't want lattice-like marks on their faces, which is the common complaints from patients. The most frequent complaint from my patients is facial erythema. They go away in 1~3 days. 2 of my patients had erythema for 1 week. They can cover it with cosmetics. To help patients maintain their social life and still help improve their scars, I use Sellas laser. CO2 fractionals are reserved for very severe scars, and patients who are eager to sacrifice their social life.

5. Ending
My clinic has obesity, body contouring, acne scars, melasma, freckles and blemishes, botox, and fillers. Visit my clinic's website, and email me.

Keep well,

Seong Eun David Yoon, M.D.
BLS + Clinic
7th Fl. Hojeon Bd. 22 Ho, 1686-21 Bunji,
Bongcheon 6 Dong, Gwanakgu, Seoul, Korea.
Tel: 82-2-883-5220

"May God bring you and your family happiness and heavenly peace."
This is my earnest prayer for you.

Dear Seong Eun David Yoon, M.D.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. All of us who are following the development of fractional resurfacing appreciate your input.

I find your resurfacing parameters interesting - much higher density (1024)combined with a lower energy, compared to what I use....I'll have to try that and see!

Are these settings only for type IV skin?

High Density and Low Energy is the trend now, TF. It applies for type II, and III too. With low energy, you don't need to worry about PIH too much. Hydration is much more important Fitz's skin types. Patients with good hydration tend to endure pain much better, in fact, many of them don't even feel the pain from Sellas. Enough sleep, hydration, water input play good roles in fullfiling enough treatment.

Thank you for your insight dr Yoon
Just a question, do you know (or can you ask your rep) if Sellas has a distributor in NYC>>>?
Where can i get my hands on one of them?

Dear NYMD, I got an email address from the company,
khsong@dinona-inc.com

hi everyone,

interesting to see dr yoon 's high density and low energy regime, which I tried but regretted about it.

I can claim I have got next to no cases of PIH ( only a few very mild temporary ones) after having done over 100 patients in about 200 treatments, even at 30 - 60 mJ, repetition between 2 - 4 for each beam, at density of 121 MTZ or 49 MTZ.

However ONE (and only one) case I tried on my assistant(Chinese type IV skin) with 10mJ, no repeat, but at density of ~520, minimal overlap ( which may have increased to 1000 in the overlapped area), quite a bit of PIH occurred, more so in the overlapped areas. This assistant had a previous Rx with happy result at 10mJ, no repeat, but 121 MTZ. So my conclusion is that the density may matter more in this regard, as the thermal damages are too close to each other. I have forbidden myself from using a denisty higher than 220 since.

Mind you I have done all those post -op care as in any other cases.

dr stephen

Hi, Dr. Stephen
Thank you for sharing your insight.
Parameters you shared with us sound different from Sellas laser.
As we all know, Ablative lasers and Non-ablative lasers differ
in treatment methods. For NA lasers like Sellas laser,
Hight Density, Low Energy works(Skin resurfacing).
But for Ablative lasers like Thermoxel(I used to use it) and other
CO2 or Er:YAG type lasers, it's quite dangerous to try high density.
If you have Fraxel Xena, we can discuss about the method, but since
you're talking about CO2 fractional, it's like talking about
the treatment method difference between IPL versus RF lasers.
Guys, no misunderstanding! For ablative lasers, high density is not
good. Dr. Stephen gave us a good point. For some doctors, my
hight density low energy might have sounded confusing.

Hi dr yoon,

really sorry missing out what you have been talking here and brought an apple to compare with an orange. Didn't know that you were talking about non-ablative. My apology.

dr stephen

Helo Dr. Yoon,

Do you use sella only for acne scar treatment? or can it be used for other conditions like spider veins, rosacea and etc?

I am trying to choose one machine that covers a broad range of treatment as i am little tight with my budget.

It will be nice if you can tell us how long the machine (Sella) has been on the market and how much it is.

Thank you Dr. Yoon

Hi, Dr. Mel.
I use Sellas for Skin Rejuvenation, Acne scar, and Wrinkles.
Recently I used Exello 2 from France on 5 patients.
They all come up with very satisfactory results,
but they all couldn't keep up with their social life.
Since they look so bad and ugly, I don't think I'll
try CO2 fractional again for full face.
I don't know that much about Business info. You'd better email
Sellas guy. I already left his email address.

Saline injection...

Have any guys used that method for scars?
I tell you what. It works very well.
Try it for free first, then once you get your
own technic, charge for 50~100 dollars per visit.
you require at least 8 visits.
Combination with dot peel, subcision,MTS(Derma roller),
and Sellas, acne scars can be treated very nicely.
My clinic has become quite famous through those
techniques through internet. About average 3-5 patients
visit my clinic for acne scar treatment.
Try it! I'm not the original doc, Dr.Sire from California
is the one. I have developed my own method already.
You make your own. Good luck, guys.

Thank you for your prompt reply Dr. Yoon

I found out that New Sella is coming out late this year so for those who wants to purchase the machine might be better to wait a few months.

TGA approval is still on waiting but they are expecting to get it approved by August this year.

may i ask dr stephen what parameters he uses for the colagen laser?

Dr. Yoon,

What is the length of the needle on your dermaroller do you use for acne scarring?

CanMD, I use mostly 1.0mm, and occasionally 1.5mm
and use 9% cream anesthesia.
I make sure all patients bleed no matter what,
and rub their blood over their faces - blood mask, that's
what I call it - , and then do Sellas laser on top without
removing blood mask. After all the procedures,
I still don't remove the mask, but put a cooling pack on top.
After the cooling pack, I remove the mask.

Dr. Stephan

What are the parameters of the Colagen Laser do you use for acne scars?

hi. i just got a thermoscan CO2 fractional laser done on my entire face including the eye area on 5th Aug 2008. my face puffed up like a balloon and i had little blisters filled with puss on my forehead. it's been about 4 weeks now and the puffing and blisters have completely disappeared after medication. my only problem is that my facial tone (although the skin has lightened tremendously) is still not back to the original tone and there are still pacthes of lighter and darker areas. also my neck area still has the laser marks but fading slowly. i have slightly dark eye circles before the laser. after the laser, i notice that on one eye this has lightened slightly but on the other it has darkened. i am currently using products to treat and protect my skin. i have been told by me doctor (a very established skin clinic doctor in Kuala lumpur) that it takes from 6 to 8 weeks for my skin to become completely normal and to appreciate what the laser has done for my acne scars. my question if anyone can please answer is whether all these symtoms that i have gone through or am having is normal. i am a little worried and would like any kind of information that will give me some peace of mind. thank you.

i would like to know the clear diff. bet. Palomar Vs Sellas

Dear Seeja,

I will go for my thermoscan CO2 fractional laser soon. Could you just share more info on the job done on you coz I am really taken aback from what I read from your article. (I am also going to this well known skin specialist located in Klang) Happen to be the same one with you?

Dr. Stephen,

what are the parameters do you use on the Colagen Laser for acne scars?

Dear Seongeun Yoon,

I have some white raised acne scars on the face.
Does MTS work?
Are the results for white raised scars inferior to that of depressed scars?